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Nationalists once again prove that they're still the most powerful interest group in Japan.
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2...g-controversy/Quote:
Outrage and fury among hardcore nationalists have been building for months, finally causing a Tokyo movie theater to cancel plans to show the film.
i watched it in japan.....at a buddys house, bu t in japan.
This isn't surprising at all, which is a shame, part of me hoped it would get screened.
Well all they really did was stoke the fires of those on the fence into wanting to see it. As soon as something becomes against the grain people flock to it like fat kids to cake. Besides, this strikes me as the type of movie that's meant to be watched by 20 and 30 somethings, post-download, alone or with a small group of intellectual equals at someone's apartment - not seen by the masses in a public theater at 2000 a pop.
Actually I think this made it quite a bit less likely Japanese people will see it. Japan isn't a country that's known for going against the flow. And it's not like it's showing despite the protests. That may continue to draw attention to it. But no, by pulling it from the screen it just goes away from the main stream consciousness. For a film to have any real effect it needs to be watched by more than just a few intellectual wannabes in their college dorm room.
Banning it is exactly what makes it subversive though. I don't think the film was ever meant for people in Japan to watch. It was meant for the world to watch so they could be made aware that this sort of thing goes on in the technological/gaming/anime paradise of Japan. International pressure might be just about the only thing that will make an impact at this point, but to be frank, no country cares enough about marine life to go the necessary step of imposing trade sanctions or similar consequences for non-compliance.
The only chance of change in Japan is to get the Japanese to care. Whaling, child pornography, over fishing... International pressure just hasn't accomplished much. Subversiveness isn't what makes a film effective. Having it reach people who are able to make a change is what makes it effective. For that to happen the Japanese need to watch it.
I'm with mothy. This doesn't need to be subversive.
This needs to be in plain sight for all to see. It needs to be undeniable. Because even if it's undeniable, the Japanese will try to deny it. If it's subversive, it'll just get swept under the rug. It's the way they roll.
Australia is taking Japan to the Internation Court of Justice in The Hague, and it will be very intersesting to see how Japan tries to defend itself, and what happens if it loses.
Yeah, 'cause the ICJ is such a powerful body, I'm sure they'll put the fear of God in Japan. Oh, wait...
Anyway, I think it is weak and pathetic that they aren't going to show the movie, but it is also understandable. If you are getting death threats from crazies about showing a movie that most likely won't even provide much of a profit, then there is no reason to show it.
No reason to show it other than not letting criminals control the world.
they kill and eat fish................not a big feal
Perhaps. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to show this film without recieving death threats.
They're not "fish" they're mammals. Silly Swede.
same fucking thing....this is blown way out of proportion...it's not like flipper is on the endangered species list............or are they?
But it's bad to eat them b/c of the mercury. Esp for lil kids and preggy women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball
Dolphins are assholes though. I've seen videos of them torturing a baby dolphin until it finally died so they could mate with the mom (tossing it up into the air, then dragging it down and the baby couldn't breath-sick). And I saw a video of a guy getting rapped by a dolphin-no joke.
I actually talked with one of my private lesson students about this whole thing. He offered a really interesting perspective.
[Paraphrased] "I don't understand why America is so up in our face about dolphins and whales. I really love whale meat. I grew up eating it because after America bombed the shit out of our country during WWII there was very little food left. The rice fields were destroyed and a lot of the live stock too, as well as fishing boats. After the war we had to eat whale to survive. [I'm guessing the same goes for dolphins?] Eating whale meat has become part of our culture because it helps us to remember that time as a time when we had nothing and now we have much. Whales and dolphins are not endangered. I don't understand why this is so important to them."
He also mentioned that the director of the film went to speak at a nearby university about The Cove and the students were basically like "so? gtfo."
Oh wow, he put the whole 'THE US BOMBED US (but I'm not going to actually acknowledge why) WAH!' spin on it.
Awesome reason to continue eating whale meat! Stick it to the US!
or he was more referring to the fact that they had no choice ?
That's not the impression I got from him at all Chjoey (I paraphased so my apologies if it came across that way). He's actually said numerous times that he's thankful the US didn't bomb Kyoto because it's his favourite beautiful place in Japan and shit like that. We've had long talks about Pearl Harbour too and how it was Japan's own fault for getting America into the war.
It wasn't just the A-bombs that the US dropped on Japan. There were numerous fire bombings tool but everyone kind of forgets about those. His point was basically that because of the amount of bombing their food supplies were way down and they had to resort to eating food they wouldn't normally have eaten (whale, dolphin, etc.) to get through those first few years post-war.
Also I question the historical accuracy of that statement. The Japanese were eating whale before World War II. And if we destroyed all their fishing boats how were they catching whale? The whales were just beaching themselves in hordes for the Japanese to eat? Not to mention, even if that is the truth it's just a lame excuse anyway. "We had to do something 60 years ago so we still have to do it now."
The fact that they aren't endangered is legitimate though (although I think some whale species may be). But if everyone who had a history of whaling was still whaling then they would be endangered.
Anyway, my problem with whaling has never been to "save the whales" anyway. They aren't in such danger that how many Japan kills has any effect. My problem is that it just isn't worth the political cost for Japan to continue whaling. They signed the treaties to not whale and then go use loopholes to get around it and piss off the cosigners of the treaties. Whale isn't such a diet staple. Most Japanese rarely if ever eat it.
My problem with The Cove thing is the protests to stop it from being shown. I don't like that it isn't being publicly screened in Japan because of pressure from nationalist groups who can't handle anyone pointing out alleged flaws in Japan.
So I'm not going to be shedding any tears for whale and dolphins (fuck you dolfeen! fuck you whale!). I just don't like some of the things going on connected to it.
Mothy - I was just rehashing what he told me. I figured it would be interesting to hear perspective from an actual Japanese person and I found it interesting. You don't have to agree with it - that's not why I posted it. But just to point out one thing - he never said ALL of the fishing boats were destroyed, just many of them. Given that, it makes sense that rather than hunt for tuna they decided to hunt for larger fish that could provide more meat/food.
The impression I got from him was just like you said, few Japanese eat it. It's not a staple of their diet but there are some people who enjoy eating it. It's basically tantamount to telling Americans that they are suddenly not allowed to eat Venison. The way I see it it's no different - a cow, a pig, a whale, meat is meat. Killing a whale or dolphin for food is no different than a cow so if people are chill with one because that's what they grew up with, why not the other? It reads like a very strong double standard to me.
I was actually reading up on the whole whaling treaty thing and saw an interesting article about it somewhere. I'll have to see if I can find it again. But it was basically about all the back door dealings that went into signing the treaty and how no country involved actually gave a shit about the issue at hand it was all to see how much they could profit off of it.
Basically I think they can do what they want. If they aren't eating an endangered species or other humans who is anyone (especially anyone not living in Japan) to tell them it's abhorrent and wrong?
But I get what you're saying about stopping the screenings. Japan has never been as liberal as the west when it comes to that kind of thing. Though in an ironic twist of irony, didn't protesters keep movies like "The Passion of the Christ" and others that were (religiously) controversial from airing in American cinemas? What's good for the goose is good for the gander no?
I've asked about the whole whale and dolphin issue any time I've been asked to give a lecture to an english-speakers society or what not - each time I ask the same questions:
- Have you eaten whale?
- Did you like it? Why/Why not?
- Do you think it, as a food, is part of Japan's culture? Why?
- Would you be upset if you were unable to eat whale meat anymore?
Out of each group, less than half have eaten it. Most of those don't really like it, but the ones that do are generally over 50 and I get the same story as Latrine about it ties into it being more heavily eaten in WW2 thanks to food shortages. They generally wouldn't be upset if they weren't able to eat whale meat anymore, but they sure as hell don't like people telling them what to do, and so "it's part of our culture" is the usual defense. In the last group i did, I talked about eating kangaroo meat and they were *horrified*. One woman was in tears because they were just so cute. (maybe I shouldn't have flipped back and forward between the photo of a cute roo and the meat case with fresh roo steaks, but whatever)
I've been told how eating whale now is mostly a push from the yakuza because they own a lot of the fishing fleets and have silent control over the government to allow it. It costs them less to get X ton of meat from one whale than it does from however many tuna they need, so they push the whale meat. I was also told that's why it was being given away for free in Wakayama schools for a brief period. I have no idea if all this is true though, so take it with a grain of salt.
I think it boils down to this: The Japanese view animals in a different light to Westerners - they are objects, nothing more. Combine this with their attitude of not being told what to do by the West and it combines to bad news for whales.
If no country involved gave a shit about it, it wouldn't have happened. Countries don't restrict their rights without reason. And even if the countries didn't give a shit about it, it is a treaty so countries need to give a shit about it now. Treaties aren't worthless pieces of paper, and Japan needs to stop treating them like they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrine
For the dolphin thing yes, since I don't believe that it's against any treaty. But for the whale thing, the treaty they willingly entered into says it's wrong so therefore they shouldn't be doing it.Quote:
Basically I think they can do what they want. If they aren't eating an endangered species or other humans who is anyone (especially anyone not living in Japan) to tell them it's abhorrent and wrong?
I don't find this ironic at all. It's the opposite of ironic. That people protest movies is expected behavior. But I'm not aware of any movie in recent history (especially top award winning movie) that was stopped from being shown all together in America. Specific theatres, yeah, but not so that you couldn't see it publicly at all. But anyway, even if there is a movie I'm not aware of that was stopped from screening, it's not a case of what's good for the goose is good for the gander, it's a case of what sucks in one place sucks in another place.Quote:
But I get what you're saying about stopping the screenings. Japan has never been as liberal as the west when it comes to that kind of thing. Though in an ironic twist of irony, didn't protesters keep movies like "The Passion of the Christ" and others that were (religiously) controversial from airing in American cinemas? What's good for the goose is good for the gander no?